HAWK

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Posts posted by HAWK

  1. Posted

    I'm not gonna make this into some long rant about the developers or the video game itself. I'm simply gonna state what I see in front of me, you can support it or not. Doesn't matter, we all get an opinion, and here's mine.

     

    The game developers have made their business off of promises, promises that were never kept. It is time for everyone to be real now, after years of promises and "supposed" updates about their development, depicting that they are just about done with the SWAT Module, and we'd be getting gameplay soon. All of which never happened. For a project that has over 1 million dollars (before anyone says the usual "a million dollars isn't much for video game", you should really look at all the projects that got kickstarted with less money but still became amazing games nonetheless. No excuse.) in funding and to have such little to show for it makes all of ours biggest worries seem true. This game is never coming out and was a cash grab. It's time for the devs to admit they failed their promise of a game and give us our money back for wasting it and our time.

    • Like 3

  2. Posted

    Dude just stop already. My gosh. How are you not getting tired of this? lol. I'm not going to discuss what you said because anyone can read what you just said and see the flaws in it. It's a gosh dang game dude. I said it's my opinion. That's it. Facts are facts. You don't need experience as a "tester" or a game developer to read the rules on steam. lol. You constantly trying to argue is not solving anything. Your argument just isn't valid. A tester doesn't develop a game. A tester knows only what they need to so they can give the game developers good feedback. I've said numerous times to drop it. So once more just drop the matter. Have a good day! Enjoy Identity it's gonna be great!

    • ver.1.22474487139 1

  3. Posted

    14 minutes ago, Norway174 said:

    How about that for starters? Their reasons are totally valid.

    And sure, while it may be your opinion. When you're putting it online for everyone to read. You're also putting it out there for criticism.
    With the example above, you could say those reasons are your personal opinion. But you know, in the end, there are people bound to not realize that, and that's when you start spreading misinformation and, in the end, only hurting the game more than helping it.

    Let's look at what you actually said:

    Here, you state, "They must pf REALLY overestimated their capability of getting things done.". In other words, you're presenting something you don't know about, as if you do.

    "For a small team with such a big budget there's no reason they couldn't expand themselves even more (hiring more people that is).", and here, you assume you know their budget. Sure, we know how much they've raises so far. That's nowhere near to knowing their budget, as in all the income, and expenses.

    "By the last month/month and a half  they got $100,000 more donations that could hire two or one very experienced dev.", and here you're stating they could just hire one or two 'experienced' developer.

    You may not have said "I'm suggesting I know better.", but you certainly implied it.

    "A task done.", yes. Totally agree. Makes sense. If they know from experience.

    But now we're talking about thousands of tasks, over a long period of time since even before they announced the first release date. For such a small team, with as @Xzothi pointed out, with varying degree of experiences.

    And I'm assuming a short term job, with little pay. You have to think, and plan long-term. You can't spend all your money on bringing on more expensive developers right away.

    I'm by no means an accountant, or good with money on my personal use. But even I see the long-term implications.

    Relativity speaking, it's not that much. Again, you have to think long term. A couple of thousands each month, won't get you that long.

    Let's say, for sake of argument. That money stopped coming in, right now. And, their monthly expense was 8,000$ USD, for example. Their current amount would only last for about 24 months, 2 years.

    See my previous point. The website was just an example. And one that I had looked into personally, because I was interested in the forum software.

    I hope this clears some things up for you? ;) 

    Ever played FarCry 4? It's like that. It's a cult that's starting to form on the forum, because people don't know any better. And because of threads like these.

    Sure, there's a lot the devs could do to get more information out there. But there's also a lot the people could do to just research a little on their own, and find more information. And not just the misinformation and slander that's spreading in the General topic. Which is what people are seeing.

    You pretty much countered this point yourself earlier:

    They had a list of items that needed to be done. They thought they could get it in within the time frame. They didn't on both account, and are now using a different system. Keeping us in the loop of what is going on from a day to day basis.

    Then by all means, come up with a better idea. I for one, think the Dev Tracker is a better idea than an arbitrary release date.

     

    @Norway174 Great responses. A lot of them I answered in my previous response to yours. You may have skipped over it or something, but I definitely answered some of the points you brought up here.

     

    15 minutes ago, Norway174 said:

    How about that for starters? Their reasons are totally valid.

    Yo, I seriously said the words "Town Square module gets delayed AGAIN with no good reasons why." I never said their reasons aren't valid. If they can't  finish the module in time then they have to delay it. duh. What I said is that there's no good reasons why the module was delayed. Before, you ask "Didn't you just say the reasons are valid?" Yes I did. But, the reasoning of "Well, we just couldn't get it done in time" is not a good excuse when we all been hearing it for several times now. We want details. What exactly took so long? What delayed them so long. No where in the dev blog does it cite that and that's what we want.

    22 minutes ago, Norway174 said:

    But now we're talking about thousands of tasks, over a long period of time since even before they announced the first release date. For such a small team, with as @Xzothi pointed out, with varying degree of experiences.

    They had seriously 2-3 years to work on this. lol. Sure a good amount of that time it was just several of them working on it. But, that does not take away from the fact that the game devs had cited on the the Town Square Module that it was 86% done. Which they stopped updating a year ago (another bad thing they should have never done). That means they had 14% less to get done with  a bigger team and bigger budget. There's absolutely no reason for two delays.

     

    25 minutes ago, Norway174 said:

    And I'm assuming a short term job, with little pay. You have to think, and plan long-term. You can't spend all your money on bringing on more expensive developers right away.

    Sure, but game devs on a usual pay don't make that much money. In the U.S. they make roughly around 40-55 thousand dollars (which is always changing). Therefore, the devs can indeed hire more people without putting themselves in a bunch of debt. That's why I cited that they just made 100k in the past month/two and could of easily put it towards getting more developers.

     

    28 minutes ago, Norway174 said:

    See my previous point. The website was just an example. And one that I had looked into personally, because I was interested in the forum software.

    I did so myself not too long ago and we both know that this isn't that expensive.

     

    29 minutes ago, Norway174 said:

    Let's say, for sake of argument. That money stopped coming in, right now. And, their monthly expense was 8,000$ USD, for example. Their current amount would only last for about 24 months, 2 years.

    This math makes no sense at all. lol. If their monthly cost was $8,000 a month they would have a TON of money leftover.

     

    30 minutes ago, Norway174 said:

    Sure, there's a lot the devs could do to get more information out there. But there's also a lot the people could do to just research a little on their own, and find more information. And not just the misinformation and slander that's spreading in the General topic. Which is what people are seeing.

    I've done days upon days of research. lol. I know very well what I'm talking about though I'm only a human could of made a mistake in writing all of this.

     

    31 minutes ago, Norway174 said:

    You pretty much countered this point yourself earlier:

    How so? I cited clearly that if they devs planned ahead and knew their limits a delay wouldn't be as likely to happen. They would of given themselves months to keep developing to assure that it's the best for us.

     

    33 minutes ago, Norway174 said:

    Then by all means, come up with a better idea. I for one, think the Dev Tracker is a better idea than an arbitrary release date.

    It's a fantastic idea that should of existed months ago. Right when they first delayed the module (after they already delayed the gameplay video). If they had this they could of very well saw themselves not be ready within a month due to their limits.

    34 minutes ago, Norway174 said:

    And sure, while it may be your opinion. When you're putting it online for everyone to read. You're also putting it out there for criticism.
    With the example above, you could say those reasons are your personal opinion. But you know, in the end, there are people bound to not realize that, and that's when you start spreading misinformation and, in the end, only hurting the game more than helping it.

    Two things. It's the internet. You can't control the internet and you can't control those who misinterpret something. Second, I'm not spreading anything that can't be backed up with facts. Could the game devs realize that they couldn't get the module ready for the second delay? Yes, by easily knowing their limits and keep track of their progress. They could added an extra week or two in case they run into any problems instead of creating a whole new delay that causes people to get sad and mad. Could the developers handle the way the delays are given better? Yes, they could give us more details in their developer blogs about the delays or simply keep us updated on the forum.

    Great discussion! Let's keep it positive!

  4. Posted · Edited by HAWK
    fixing

    @Xzothi Alright I literally can't explain it to you any better. I seriously showed the very paragraph on what they look for WHEN THEY TEST THE GAME! And yet somehow you keep stating these other passages that have nothing to deal with the review of the game. lol. My gosh. In the passage you quoted they are saying that when the game developer's game is published it cannot advertise things that they do not currently have in the game. Since it would be false advertisement. That has nothing to deal with their review of the game. That's just steam trying to cover the game devs and their own butts.

    26 minutes ago, Xzothi said:

    Yes being a tester isn't being a developer being a random person online isn't being a developer or a tester or anyone who knows what is actually happening behind the scenes.

    This sentence just proves how invalid your argument is. You seriously stated that a random person doesn't know what's actually occurring behind the scenes. Key words "random person". lol. You can't argue that you know more about something than a random person. That's simply doesn't make any sense because for all you know you could be speaking to someone with 10 years of game development experience. Besides that you're a tester that isn't a developer and if you're saying that a "random person" isn't a developer than neither of you are better when debating what goes on in the background of game. Gosh dang. Having said that I've done a lot more research than you have in this specific area who just started looking at this stuff today. I'm done with this. Have a good day.

  6. Posted

    20 minutes ago, Xzothi said:

    I know all about it because I been there I been a "tester" so what are you trying to tell me? I am telling you they don't play test and no where does it say play test.  No where does it say testing to see if it will work. They just said that it should, there is a difference. (And when it is found out that it doesn't at launch then it gets taken off of steam.) @HAWK You think you know everything when you are talking to someone who has been there who has done that.  You have a great day too. No need for you to have attitude. 

     

    @Xzothi Alright so I'll underlined everything that you might be missing that was said by steam:

    " Here's a list of things we check for when reviewing your product

    Your product will need to start up properly.

    All supported features listed on the store page will need to be implemented in the current build.

    Your product must use Steam Wallet for any in-game transactions."

    Being a tester is not being a developer. Just want to let you know that. lol. So that's two totally different things when getting a game on steam. Do you think I'm saying a gameplay test? I can see how that's confusing. I'm saying "play test" as in they start the program, see if it runs, and if it does they close it and mark down that it works. So as cited above they DO say these test to make sure it works. NO WHERE DOES IT SAY "SHOULD". You haven't done that since you have never been a game developer who put a game on steam.

  8. Posted · Edited by HAWK
    fixing

    @Norway174 Man I gotta give you props to type this big thing. lol. First things first:

    36 minutes ago, Norway174 said:

    But so is spreading misinformation and bullshit.

    So how exactly am I spreading "misinformation and bullshit"? Just wondering. I mean at the end of the day it's just my opinion. It's not a newsletter or something it's simply my opinion. Like it or not you can at least respect it, that's not much to ask for and everyone in this community respect each other.

    36 minutes ago, Norway174 said:

    Are you seriously suggesting you know how to develop Identity better than the developers?

    I'm sorry if somehow you had a hard time reading my message, but NO WHERE DID I SAY THAT. lol. I literally said they had a lot of time and money. That's seriously a plain fact that you can't argue.

    36 minutes ago, Norway174 said:

    That you can accurately predict how long each task is gonna take, and magically hire experienced developers for a short-term job, with little pay, who also don't need any time to be thought the inner workings of the game?

    So wow. Where to start? Let start with: Any developer can predict how long a task can take. He or she should know from prior experience how long it takes to get a task done. For example, an animator knows how long it takes himself/herself to get one animation done.  Due to unexpected errors which has happened a lot lately, it would make sense to add a few days or a week to that time frame to prepare for it. For the rest of the stuff, short term job? What are you even talking about? lol. Little pay? Still what are you talking about? Also the last part still . . . what are you talking about?

    36 minutes ago, Norway174 said:

    At the time of writing this post, they've raised 1,160,841$ USD

    Yeah they got even more money. lol. I honestly don't know where you're going with that.

     

    36 minutes ago, Norway174 said:

    Bringing in more people isn't as easy as 1, 2, 3... And they have a lot of expenses too. Who do you think pays for this forum you're on right on?
    Not only the hosting of the forum, but also the forum software costs money. And that's a monthly expense.

    Dude seriously. Websites do cost a good amount of money, but they don't hundreds of thousands of dollars.

     

    36 minutes ago, Norway174 said:

    And then there's the software they have to pay for, to make this game. The office space they have to rent, their own salaries, and a whole lot of other speculative expenses.

    Software can cost up to $10,000, and even more, but some of which doesn't need to be bought or has cheaper alternatives. Yep office space does cost money. I would hope they get paid. I'm sure there is.

     

    36 minutes ago, Norway174 said:

    In conclusion, you really have no idea what you're talking about.

    In conclusion, the only thing I have no idea about is some of the things you said. So some more explaining can help.

    36 minutes ago, Norway174 said:

    Their reasoning for delays are totally valid. It's not just some "excuse" as you seem it to be.

    A survey I did expresses that a good majority of the community (at least from those who voted which was a lot) believe the game devs are not telling the truth with what they're doing and the majority expects them to at least give a lot more detailed explanations for the delays. So I'm not the only one that thinks this and you saying so makes your whole argument invalid.

    36 minutes ago, Norway174 said:

    They've done thousands of tasks before the Dev Tracker.

    Which literally and clearly shows just how many tasks that had to be done that the game devs would of never been able to complete on original release date and the first delay.

     

    Alright. That was interesting. Great discussion! I liked it. Let's just keep it more healthy and friendly. lol. I explained in many threads and comments on the forums that I really want this game to succeed, but I believe the way they are handling these delays are just terrible (a large amount of the community thinks so too). Have a great day! I hope this helps explain everything.

  9. Posted · Edited by HAWK
    fixing

    15 minutes ago, Xzothi said:

    @HAWK and like I said many games have launched with out any executables.  I have also been in early games where they didn't have a server to play on during this window.  Yet they got on steam how is this?  An again nothing says play test there.  You have to realize review doesn't mean play test. Have you ever been around during a game launch in similar affects? Since I have I would think my experience out plays your misunderstanding.. 

     

    @Xzothi Alright I'm going to take the high road and just end this conversation here. I rather not sit here all day and discuss this matter when you can't read what's right in front of you. If you did any actual research you would know that a game doesn't need to have any servers to play on for it to be passed by steam. All they are looking for is that they can open up a program that the game dev said they should be able to open it without any problems. IT CAN BE JUST A MAIN MENU. As long as it opens that's all they care about. So yes they CAN get on steam by simply following the rules they set forth. Who's talking about a play test? I don't remember ever mentioning this and if I did I misspoke and actually it's still a play test, testing whether a person can open up the program and run properly. Obviously, you do not have much experience in game development or just plain reading the rules listed by steam. I don't know why it seem like you got really frustrated or something. I apologize if somehow you thought I was giving attitude or something. This was simply a discussion. So have a great day! It'll be fun when Identity releases and everyone can play.

  11. Posted

    @Olio I understand your position. I've been talking about the Town Square module of course. Since steam is being the distribution center for the modules the game devs must follow their rules. Therefore, from my research (which some of it is based off of what the game devs have told some of the other mods) we still got a good month until this module actually releases. As of now there's no set time frame correct?

  12. Posted

    Just now, Olio said:

    What I’m saying is that everything steam related will align with when it’s time for it to release. This is what I’ve been told.

     

    Ok I totally understand that. But having that said, based off of what the other mods said we still have at least 3 weeks until the module is released. Can you say otherwise?

  14. Posted

    31 minutes ago, Xzothi said:

    I just quoted that (fully mind you.) and no it isn't reviewing and testing are different things.  When it comes to this. We are not talking about customer reviews, we are also not talking about reviewers who get a early copy of the game to review it. 

     

    This type of review is checking files to see if there is anything that seems to brake the rules or seems to be in illegal in some way like stealing your information. (So kinda like a anti virus scan of said files.) So again not a play test.

     

    @Xzothi Not sure where you're reading this but the review is as listed in the url:

    " Our review of your game or software build prior to release typically takes 3-5 business days to complete, but we ask that you plan for at least five business days to ensure that we are able to review and approve in time for release and to allow for time in case an issue should arise. We'll send you any feedback if necessary, or if none is necessary, we'll mark your product as "Ready for release".

    Here's a list of things we check for when reviewing your product:

    • Your product will need to start up properly.
      This means that your product must successfully launch in all supported operating systems listed on the store page.
    • All supported features listed on the store page will need to be implemented in the current build.
      If you intend to add a feature in the future, you'll need to remove the selected feature in the Basic Info tab until it is implemented and released.
    • Your product must use Steam Wallet for any in-game transactions.
      This means that your product cannot link to other store pages that does not offer Steam Wallet."

    So no where in this does it say " This type of review is checking files to see if there is anything that seems to brake the rules or seems to be in illegal in some way like stealing your information. (So kinda like a anti virus scan of said files.)" As listed just above it is a play test to assure that everything works. Now I believe this should end the confusion lol. This review has to be done for all game devs submitting their games to steam.

    :

  15. Posted

    1 minute ago, Xzothi said:

    I just quoted that (fully mind you.) and no it isn't reviewing and testing are different things.  When it comes to this. We are not talking about customer reviews we are not talking about reviewers who get a early copy of the game to review it. 

     

    @Xzothi You totally lost me here. lol. Who's talking about testing? That section you copied is not what's found in the url I sent you. The only one's that do the reviewing is steam, they do this to assure that when people download the game it actually runs. This review process takes 3-5 days. What exactly is your question? lol.

  17. Posted · Edited by HAWK
    fixing

    @Xzothi I'm telling you exactly what steam says they do on their game dev site. You are more than welcome to go on it and look at the same info yourself. But, like I said previously they say that they test the new games which takes around 3-5 business days in case they're unplayable. @LuckyDuck Yeah I think you're right. lol. I read that too, but I totally forgot about it. 

    10 minutes ago, LuckyDuck said:

    @HAWK The game is already accepted onto steam. The store page is just hidden from the public. 

     

    Just because they have a store page doesn't mean it's accepted. Just like Olio said they are developing the game during the 2 week review of their page. Therefore, it's indeed not accepted yet. Which is why my whole statement about it being another 3 weeks is true. After their two weeks of getting the review done they said they'll be finished with the module. Then steam needs to review it which takes 3-5 business days. Which is why it'll be about another month before we get the module. I'm using what the game devs have said through the moderators.

    • Like 1

  18. Posted · Edited by HAWK
    fixing stuff

    @LuckyDuck Actually I believe in one of the latest dev blogs or a forum reply the devs have said that the module will indeed be released on steam to download (not to buy). Therefore @Citybuild122  is correct with his info about the time frame to get a game on the steam page and have it reviewed. So, unless the devs misspoke or something then we are all facing another delay. Here's why:  @Olio Wait a second. Now I'm confused. If they're still developing the game, which they are due to the delay, they still need to upload the game to steam so that steam themselves can play it and declare it a playable game (it's their process for admitting new games). Now there's no way they would be able to finish the Module and upload it on steam along with the two weeks since steam still has to test it FIRST prior to the release. So according to you the devs said they'll finish the game along with the two weeks that way they can release the module right after. But, that's simply not how it works. Steam has to review the whole game first which takes about 5 business days then the game devs can release it. To sum it all up: The game devs can't release the game after the 2 weeks review of the steam page because they still have to get the game reviewed by steam.  So it'll be 5 days after the two weeks review of the steam page that the game will be released (since they're still developing it), if that's how they're doing it which according to you it is.

  19. Posted

    @Order @Rainwalker @Stebenev So I think everyone can agree these delays are  bad and sure if they're needed then by all means do it. But, these devs had a lot of time and a lot of money to get this Module created by now. Therefore, they must of REALLY overestimated their capability of getting things done since this is the 2nd delay for the module since the original release date. For a small team with such a big budget there's no reason they couldn't expand themselves even more (hiring more people that is). By the last month/month and a half  they got $100,000 more donations that could hire two or one very experienced dev. Their reasoning for the delays, if they even have one that's valid, is just an excuse. Having said this I think the game once it's actually released (which can take a very long time) will be a good game and has a lot of potential.

  20. Posted

    @Casino Now look at it. About 20% of people say they don't need a release date which is very shocking. @jclar371 Well the point is people want an official release date that the devs don't delay and push back. People wouldn't be pissed if the devs actually treated the whole situation right in the first place. @gary2301 Well they had the progress bar for the Town Square module that was set at 86% (if my memory serves me right) for a whole year and here we are will more delays.

  21. Posted

    @Casino Exactly my point. We have given them our money with the purpose that'll put it to good use and make sure the game gets done in a fair pace. Year later, we're getting delay after delay. They truly do need to hire more people especially since they raised so much money, and yes they have expenses to pay, but not all of it is taken away.

    @killerkate888 lol. It's totally fine. No hard feelings indeed.

  24. Posted · Edited by HAWK
    fixing

    22 minutes ago, lamona said:

    They've crossed the Rubicon for me, so to speak. To not only delay it a second time, but doing it at the last minute and scrapping a release date with a resigned "what more do you want?!" shows a complete disregard.

    Baseless positivity hasn't worked so far. Why do people think it's going to be different now they're not even giving us a date? lol

     

    @lamona I agree with you. To do this again after delaying the modules overall, the video, then delaying this Town Square Module twice in a row is just sad. @killerkate888 You came off swinging, lol. Just try to smoothly go into it. We're all friends here. We all want the same thing, Identity to be released. But like @lamona said we all have been nonstop supportive and positive, some of us been here for years. So to get yet another delay and in the manner they did it was like they disregarded all of us. There comes to a point where we all waited long enough and the least we deserve is a gosh dang valid release date. Thanks, you have a nice day too.

    • Like 3

  25. Posted · Edited by HAWK
    fixing

    17 minutes ago, killerkate888 said:

    I'm sorry that being positive is so difficult for you, just be patient. You WILL enjoy the game experience better and you will feel really stupid when it comes out very shortly, you WILL not enjoy the game as much and you WILL have a habit of complaining for nothing. The money you donated was a  pledge meaning you committed by a solemn promise to stay positive , encourage the devs and wait for them  developers (a person or thing that develops something) to start and finish a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, part of the game. YOUR lucky that they even let us try out the alpha ;)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Do everyone a favor     don't be a stick in the mud and the same goes for the rest of you entitled beelzebubs!! 

     

    @killerkate888You talking to me? It feels like you're talking to me so I'll say you're talking to me. lol. You honestly don't know what a pledge means do you? lol. Just because you pledged for something doesn't mean you can't give your opinion about the progress of the game. Especially if it's positive or negative. Like I said you don't have to like it but that's my opinion. Now let's depict your message. Who said being positive is difficult for me? I literally said numerous times that I support the game and hope that it's as good as the devs say it will be. I simply stated what came to mind after looking at the blog about the 2nd delay. Like it or not there's no reason the devs couldn't give themselves 2 months instead of missing yet another deadline. Also you must be new here (account created this year that's why I said that) but delays is nothing new to this game. But after backing it and keeping positive for years it starts getting old. Wait a while and you'll catch the drift. Lastly, gosh excuse me I need to take a breather after writing all of this, just because myself or anyone voices their opinion whether it's negative or not doesn't mean they shouldn't express it. Also you must of got lost when looking up the definition of "pledge" since it's " a solemn promise or undertaking" and no where does it say "to stay positive".

    • Like 1