Make the Penalty for Death and Murder Incredibly Steep.

[uncannierlink 225]

First things first, when I say death, I do not mean when you are incapacitated and have to wait for an ambulance. I mean true death, as in when you bleed out. There are two major reasons why making death have an incredibly steep penalty (such as a 20% tax on net worth) is a good idea. First, is that it makes dying (and therefore murder) carry much more weight. Since the end objective of this game is NOT PvP, this will apply and will make players actually think about the consequences of actions that involve death.

Since death is such a big deal, Murder would also be put on the same grounds. While life in prison might be a bit much, I think that if you kill a person, you should have to do everything in your power to make sure that you aren't caught and if you're part of organized crime and regularly kill people, you better have some way to make sure you guys get out of jail free.

 

2nd, having a very steep monetary fine will be good for Identity's economy, as it is a method to remove currency from circulation. A HUGE problem in Asylum was inflation. You would have to grind for weeks just to have any amount of money a real player would want. 

 

Here is an example: Houses on asylum servers were really the only commodity that was traded. On the asylum servers, houses never changed in value. Their location was static, their quality was static, and their size was static. You couldn't improve or degrade a house so it's value always remained the same. However, over time the price of houses would increase. While you could buy one from the server for a few million, eventually the house would sell for 5x or 6x the price. You may be saying, think that this is a good thing, but here is the catch: The only amount of money that was valuable, was enough to buy a house from another player. Regular players had massive bank accounts, and while money kept being generated into the world, it was never removed.

 

If Asylum wants to have a player driven economy like they described (with player owned businesses and player owned production they are going to have to design a method to remove currency from circulation. My suggestion is to make one of these methods a very steep penalty (call it a tax) for death.

[Kickapoo 569]

1 hour ago, uncannierlink said:

First things first, when I say death, I do not mean when you are incapacitated and have to wait for an ambulance. I mean true death, as in when you bleed out. There are two major reasons why making death have an incredibly steep penalty (such as a 20% tax on net worth) is a good idea. First, is that it makes dying (and therefore murder) carry much more weight. Since the end objective of this game is NOT PvP, this will apply and will make players actually think about the consequences of actions that involve death.

Since death is such a big deal, Murder would also be put on the same grounds. While life in prison might be a bit much, I think that if you kill a person, you should have to do everything in your power to make sure that you aren't caught and if you're part of organized crime and regularly kill people, you better have some way to make sure you guys get out of jail free.

 

2nd, having a very steep monetary fine will be good for Identity's economy, as it is a method to remove currency from circulation. A HUGE problem in Asylum was inflation. You would have to grind for weeks just to have any amount of money a real player would want. 

 

Here is an example: Houses on asylum servers were really the only commodity that was traded. On the asylum servers, houses never changed in value. Their location was static, their quality was static, and their size was static. You couldn't improve or degrade a house so it's value always remained the same. However, over time the price of houses would increase. While you could buy one from the server for a few million, eventually the house would sell for 5x or 6x the price. You may be saying, think that this is a good thing, but here is the catch: The only amount of money that was valuable, was enough to buy a house from another player. Regular players had massive bank accounts, and while money kept being generated into the world, it was never removed.

 

If Asylum wants to have a player driven economy like they described (with player owned businesses and player owned production they are going to have to design a method to remove currency from circulation. My suggestion is to make one of these methods a very steep penalty (call it a tax) for death.

Having a fully circulating economy is a concept in MMO's that doesn't really exist yet....Or does it? I dunno, never heard of it myself

[uncannierlink 225]

12 minutes ago, Kickapoo said:

Having a fully circulating economy is a concept in MMO's that doesn't really exist yet....Or does it? I dunno, never heard of it myself

Eve online and Albion online are 2 examples. Eve online being far more successful. It's possible, you just have to design for it. WOW sort of had one, but again, not enough removal of currency from the economy. Also, you don't have to completely eliminate inflation, just control it.

Edited November 4, 2016 by uncannierlink

[Frank 251]

I can see this penalty as possibly being available in community servers but almost definitely not in official servers. Imagine some 12 year old kid is joy riding in a stolen vehicle and runs you over while screaming profanity. You had a million dollars in the bank which is now down by 200,000 because of that stupid kid. Now let's say that it took a month to get $200,000. I for one would be so furious that I would probably get ill, so I wouldn't personally play on that server.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Frank

[Frank 251]

The only way it could possibly work is if the server is whitelisted with extreme care and there is a probation period to make sure you are a very serious roleplayer.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Frank

[uncannierlink 225]

17 minutes ago, Frank said:

I can see this penalty as possibly being available in community servers but almost definitely not in official servers. Imagine some 12 year old kid is joy riding in a stolen vehicle and runs you over while screaming profanity. You had a million dollars in the bank which is now down by 200,000 because of that stupid kid. Now let's say that it took a month to get $200,000. I for one would be so furious that I would probably get ill, so I wouldn't personally play on that server.

Like I said, this is only when you DIE. Getting hit by a car isn't always fatal. If he is driving at fatal speeds on a non-highway, the cops should be after him. If he is going out of his way to KOS, he should be banned from official servers. That's how I see it at least. If some kid buys an AR and murders 7 people and then the cops take him down, it's a tragedy, yes, some crazy gunman just killed 7 people. However, now he's locked up in an insane asylum and we'll never see him again (Banned). 

[Frank 251]

22 minutes ago, uncannierlink said:

Like I said, this is only when you DIE. Getting hit by a car isn't always fatal. If he is driving at fatal speeds on a non-highway, the cops should be after him. If he is going out of his way to KOS, he should be banned from official servers. That's how I see it at least. If some kid buys an AR and murders 7 people and then the cops take him down, it's a tragedy, yes, some crazy gunman just killed 7 people. However, now he's locked up in an insane asylum and we'll never see him again (Banned). 

I don't think people should be banned from official servers unless they hack, cheat, or something like that. Banning for RDM on official servers would be catastrophic for the game because it would turn alot of people off. I'm not saying I want the game to be like GTA online, but if you can get banned for RDM and mass killing, admins and cops are gonna start calling every time you kill them "RDMing" to ban you.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Frank

[Frank 251]

I think steep prison sentences, long respawn times, and the difficulty to obtain firearms would be enough to ward off too much RDMing and mass murder. 

Edited November 4, 2016 by Frank

[Frank 251]

I know this is going off topic, but I think the only people that should be able to ban people from official servers should be the devs because the ban would have to be for hacking, scamming ect. Private community servers would of course be up to the individual owners and admins.

[uncannierlink 225]

12 minutes ago, Frank said:

I know this is going off topic, but I think the only people that should be able to ban people from official servers should be the devs because the ban would have to be for hacking, scamming ect. Private community servers would of course be up to the individual owners and admins.

If you can't ban people for RDM on official servers, it would literally by just like GTA. Since there are no consequences for RDM, people would RDM. You NEED to be able to ban for RDM on all servers. Unless of course it's just a pure PvP server.

 

Also scamming (as long as it doesn't involve real money) is perfectly fine. That makes for great RP.

 

 

Anyway the Devs know how to stop mass killing and the like from happening. The problem is, death still carries no weight. People will say stop or I'll shoot, and then every time you'll try to run away, because you care more about the money you're carrying than dying. That's why there needs to be a steep death penalty.

Edited November 4, 2016 by uncannierlink

[uncannierlink 225]

To address your concern about Admin Abuse, that's going to be a huge problem but it goes much deeper than just what you said. Basically if Admins are allowed to play on the same servers as they administer, they will, intentionally or not, abuse their power. Admins should NOT be allowed to play on official servers as a normal citizen. Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely. This is a problem with Rust, and every other game.

[Frank 251]

Yes, I agree on some of those things, and ya by scamming I meant by for real money, in game scamming is part of the game. But I think that the devs already said that the official servers will be more relaxed and I'm thinking they won't ban for RDM. It won't be like GTA anyways because in GTA you have an almost unlimited and easily obtainable arsenal of high powered weapons which will be difficult to get in identity. I think a good way to prevent RDM instead of banning would be that if you have murdered a certain amount of people in the last hour or so and are then killed yourself, your respawn timer is extended for hours. 

[Jinx 166]

First of all, you need to forget about public servers, Asylum will run those and what will be, will be.

Most of us have experience of public servers in GTA Online, the prime example of what Identity WILL turn into if players are let loose with no rules. It's a game, and either through hacks or over time, players will get access to all the weaponry & they will use those weapons.....fact. GTA Online is a pyramid game & the single worst example of one ever hoisted upon the gaming public. There IS no actual game, the only goal is to gather cash, which Rockstar then remove by 'giving' the players 'free' updates.. Players who inhabit public rooms exclusively do not 'work' to earn their in game cash, so they buy shark cards.....and on and on.

If a game has a system where the player can buy game currency, then any attempt at an in game economy WILL fail.

So lets cut to the chase here. In order to make your server work to any degree then MURDER (not death,murder) is going to have to carry some kind of heavy penalty.& not just to discourage grief play. Forget real life too, even on a full server (300 players) just fifty murders a week would be huge, with such a small amount of people then death, & lengthy prison sentences, are going to have a massive impact on your player base. But at the same time, if people are free to go around killing, with little or no consequence, then anarchy will ensue & you will end up with GTA Online.

At the time of writing it's still something we (and by we I mean the server we'll be running) are still trying to find an answer for. The death penalty is an interesting possibility, but almost impossible to implement, huge fines for murder would impact the economy. One thing is for certain though, even on a rp server like ours some kind of suspension of belief is going to be needed or this won't work at all.

 

[Frank 251]

8 minutes ago, Jinx said:

First of all, you need to forget about public servers, Asylum will run those and what will be, will be.

Most of us have experience of public servers in GTA Online, the prime example of what Identity WILL turn into if players are let loose with no rules. It's a game, and either through hacks or over time, players will get access to all the weaponry & they will use those weapons.....fact. GTA Online is a pyramid game & the single worst example of one ever hoisted upon the gaming public. There IS no actual game, the only goal is to gather cash, which Rockstar then remove by 'giving' the players 'free' updates.. Players who inhabit public rooms exclusively do not 'work' to earn their in game cash, so they buy shark cards.....and on and on.

If a game has a system where the player can buy game currency, then any attempt at an in game economy WILL fail.

So lets cut to the chase here. In order to make your server work to any degree then MURDER (not death,murder) is going to have to carry some kind of heavy penalty.& not just to discourage grief play. Forget real life too, even on a full server (300 players) just fifty murders a week would be huge, with such a small amount of people then death, & lengthy prison sentences, are going to have a massive impact on your player base. But at the same time, if people are free to go around killing, with little or no consequence, then anarchy will ensue & you will end up with GTA Online.

At the time of writing it's still something we (and by we I mean the server we'll be running) are still trying to find an answer for. The death penalty is an interesting possibility, but almost impossible to implement, huge fines for murder would impact the economy. One thing is for certain though, even on a rp server like ours some kind of suspension of belief is going to be needed or this won't work at all.

 

Well I'm giving my opinion on how public servers should be run, it's up to the devs but I can still give my opinion. And regardless of rules, the amount of murders will always be high compared to real life because it's a video game. Besides, there needs to be one or two shootouts a day on a server because it's a video game and even the cops want to have fun and have an opportunity to shoot bad guys sometimes.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Frank

[Jinx 166]

2 hours ago, Frank said:

Well I'm giving my opinion on how public servers should be run, it's up to the devs but I can still give my opinion. And regardless of rules, the amount of murders will always be high compared to real life because it's a video game. Besides, there needs to be one or two shootouts a day on a server because it's a video game and even the cops want to have fun and have an opportunity to shoot bad guys sometimes.

Hence the need to find a balance between role play & game play if (like us) you'll be running a RP server, and the suspension of belief I mentioned, not everyone who gets shot has to be dead & not everyone who shoots someone has to be a killer.

For years Rockstar have used the excuse that on open servers you can't just ban people for 'playing the game' but the point is....there actually IS no game. When you do CEO missions or missions for the Biker DLC, and you're armed and ready for trouble nobody will attack you....but be stood outside somewhere just talking and some moron will drive past and throw a sticky bomb.

I can't see how it'll be any different on Asylum's servers unless they specifically state that 'random' killing is not allowed. The obvious answer is the simplest of course, make it consensual.....i.e you cant be attacked unless you flag yourself for it.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Jinx

[Frank 251]

5 hours ago, Jinx said:

Hence the need to find a balance between role play & game play if (like us) you'll be running a RP server, and the suspension of belief I mentioned, not everyone who gets shot has to be dead & not everyone who shoots someone has to be a killer.

For years Rockstar have used the excuse that on open servers you can't just ban people for 'playing the game' but the point is....there actually IS no game. When you do CEO missions or missions for the Biker DLC, and you're armed and ready for trouble nobody will attack you....but be stood outside somewhere just talking and some moron will drive past and throw a sticky bomb.

I can't see how it'll be any different on Asylum's servers unless they specifically state that 'random' killing is not allowed. The obvious answer is the simplest of course, make it consensual.....i.e you cant be attacked unless you flag yourself for it.

Well there won't be sticky bombs or drive by shootings so that takes alot of killings out of the question. Plus I don't think people would often mass murder people because they would lose their gun once they are shot down by the police, and guns are going to be very valuable. I think the max penalty for rdm on official servers is a tag next to your name that identifies that you like to rdm.

[JamesLuck01 1,531]

6 hours ago, Frank said:

Well I'm giving my opinion on how public servers should be run, it's up to the devs but I can still give my opinion. And regardless of rules, the amount of murders will always be high compared to real life because it's a video game. Besides, there needs to be one or two shootouts a day on a server because it's a video game and even the cops want to have fun and have an opportunity to shoot bad guys sometimes.

they will have a system in place to make sure people committing murder don't do it excessively.

[Shimozukachi 481]

no penaltys for killing another player but if i get killed i lose literally everything? that's crap. the only thing we need is a good system that prevents users like the asylum altis life user hay*** (*** = censored the half username) from playing that game like a gta clone