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This is pointless. . .

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On 24/07/2018 at 1:40 PM, dagtag said:

I am not trying to be mean or anything but you didnt pay for a product, you helped back a project. If you cant handle delays and even more delays then maybe you shouldnt have backed in the first place... As i stated before i m not trying to be mean but there are a lot of people who think they paid for a product, people like these actually give the developers a hard time by first giving their money and then taking that away again...

 

You're an a very example of total arrogance and seriously, being an ostrich does not help here.  If your head is in the sand than, sure keep on rolling over.. Major issue with gaming community today is simply just the fact that people "roll over" each time a developer screws up and this has been going on in the gaming industry for a long time.  Truth of the matter is that this became a habit and allowed any gaming company to give the community ridiculous turn around and we have been doing nothing but buying into these silly games. Too long we have been patting these developers and simply accepting this ridiculous way of them doing whatever they want.  Founded or not, there is money involved, and we should pay attention a lot more to this because it's our money involved..This demands some kind of answer, Not maybe, perhaps, No.. you have to give us an answer.  If you mess up, admit it, when there is transparency there is trust.  I don't have any trust in this guys because they are not being transparent. I love the idea of this title but there are way bigger values that matter than that and i am not going to break them for anybody, nor should anyone.   

 

On 25/07/2018 at 12:31 PM, dagtag said:

And you can predict the future? No, you cant, you are being totally pessimistic. Yeah the game has had bumps and blablabla but first of all, the TS is close to release and there is already being worked on the second module, these modules also take less time. So this game will probably release even when they have had delays. Because there are always those who know the risk of backing a game and dont refund with the slightest problem.

 

Dude, again where are you getting this information? How do you know they are already working on the 2nd module? There is nothing stated officially regarding that and i am not understanding what makes you fill the ambassador role that clearly belongs to the community manager. 

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On 26/07/2018 at 5:17 PM, Oroborous said:

You're an a very example of total arrogance and seriously, being an ostrich does not help here.  If your head is in the sand than, sure keep on rolling over.. Major issue with gaming community today is simply just the fact that people "roll over" each time a developer screws up and this has been going on in the gaming industry for a long time.  Truth of the matter is that this became a habit and allowed any gaming company to give the community ridiculous turn around and we have been doing nothing but buying into these silly games. Too long we have been patting these developers and simply accepting this ridiculous way of them doing whatever they want.  Founded or not, there is money involved, and we should pay attention a lot more to this because it's our money involved..This demands some kind of answer, Not maybe, perhaps, No.. you have to give us an answer.  If you mess up, admit it, when there is transparency there is trust.  I don't have any trust in this guys because they are not being transparent. I love the idea of this title but there are way bigger values that matter than that and i am not going to break them for anybody, nor should anyone.   

 

"Oh he trusts in the company he puts his money in, he must be arrogant". Before I back a game like this I look at whether it can be done or not, and it can... For a small company game development isn't an easy thing, was I disappointed when the game got delayed, yeah sure but me keeping quiet about it and supporting the game nonetheless doesn't mean I "roll around" it means I trust this company with my money, that's why I gave it in the first place and that was my point of the previous post. A lot of people don't trust their money to this company, I am not telling anyone they should trust them, I am telling them to think about it before they decide to pledge.

 

On 26/07/2018 at 5:23 PM, Oroborous said:

Dude, again where are you getting this information? How do you know they are already working on the 2nd module? There is nothing stated officially regarding that and i am not understanding what makes you fill the ambassador role that clearly belongs to the community manager. 

 

because it has been mentioned multiple times, just because it hasn't been stated officially anywhere doesn't mean it wasn't mentioned on forums/discord. I am just trying to help wherever I can so that people don't spread lies and others may believe these, community manager or not I am allowed to help and correct wherever I can.

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6 minutes ago, dagtag said:

because it has been mentioned multiple times, just because it hasn't been stated officially anywhere doesn't mean it wasn't mentioned on forums/discord. I am just trying to help wherever I can so that people don't spread lies and others may believe these, community manager or not I am allowed to help and correct wherever I can.

 

Well don't you think a official statement would not fix up the insane confusion? Do you think anyone is going to believe what you may overheard on some chat on discord? Not trying to go hard on you at all, Just getting absolutely tired of how things are being handled by Asylum.  You stated that you trust Asylum with your money,  Haven't most of us did? But with constant changing of mind, no transparency and excuses it's very card to continue to trust. 

Edited by Oroborous
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On 7/26/2018 at 7:24 PM, dagtag said:

[Before I back a game like this I look at whether it can be done or not, and it can...]

I would like to read that from you, but i dont think you have the answer. As @Oroboroussaid,  you are an example of arrogance. Blind folded by an idea. Its clearly that your experience in such things is little to non and do not want to accept the reality.
 I backed many projects in my gaming life and only two of them got released; The Long Dark and KONA. When I tell you that this gaming company does not look promising AT ALL, then i speak from experience. 
 At the end of the day, you ll get a crap "module", which you ll hate, but at least you ll learn from your mistake. 

Edited by Plumis
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2 hours ago, Plumis said:

I would like to read that from you, but i dont think you have the answer. As @Oroboroussaid,  you are an example of arrogance. Blind folded by an idea. Its clearly that your experience in such things is little to non and do not want to accept the reality.
 I backed many projects in my gaming life and only two of them got released; The Long Dark and KONA. When I tell you that this gaming company does not look promising AT ALL, then i speak from experience. 
 At the end of the day, you ll get a crap "module", which you ll hate, but at least you ll learn from your mistake. 

 

There is still a difference between total arrogance and trust... you say you backed a lot of games before, thats possible, but remember that not every development team/company is the same. There is a very good chance this game will release and i am not saying that because i am arrogant but because i have experience with development, they are two complete different things. And "crap module"? I know its just a social module with the basic things but that doesnt mean its going to be crap, they have been holding the release back for a reason and thats not to "stall" but do they can perfect their game.

Edited by dagtag
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3 hours ago, Plumis said:

you are an example of arrogance

I´ve been reading the Discord chats vigorously, and I can say that DagTag isn´t relaying information from another backer, but from one of the various moderators, as well as answers previously given by them on the forums. As far as I have seen, he simply repeats what the moderators have said, as well as sometimes speaking from experience. This being said, the only arrogance I see in these posts are your own, as well as that of those who ignore the words of the people who work on the project, and know what is going on first-hand.
Trusting someone is not a sign of arrogance, and will never be. If he has done his research as he says, and if he has seen the same messages I have, I can back him up and say that this project is trustworthy, but that due to its magnitude, and the small team that is working on it, it is normal to expect delays. Programming is never easy, especially in a project this complex, and remember, they built the engines themselves, so it´s normal that it takes extra time. A project from scratch will take time.

On ‎26‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 6:32 PM, Oroborous said:

Well don't you think a official statement would not fix up the insane confusion? Do you think anyone is going to believe what you may overheard on some chat on discord?

Even if they released an official statement, people will still ask the same questions, and blame the team for not releasing the game as swiftly as Ubisoft can, or other big companies with large teams.
Not only that, but as I´ve said above, the information stated by Dag has been said by moderators, both on Discord and in the Forums.

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1 hour ago, dagtag said:

There is a very good chance this game will release and i am not saying that because i am arrogant but because i have experience with development, they are two complete different things. 

 

First of all, CLEARLY you dont have experience in development. Please never say that again. I am pretty sure you dont even know the rules of object oriented programming. 
Second, its very clear that the company has a bad project management, thus missing all the deadlines, which at the end will lead them to their end. 
Third, the reason of holding the release is maybe because there are no developers to develop? Did you really think that after 4 years of development 1.3 million dollars would be enough? Please be more realistic.

 

18 minutes ago, raicyrose said:

 Programming is never easy, especially in a project this complex, and remember, they built the engines themselves, so it´s normal that it takes extra time. A project from scratch will take time.

They are using Unreal Engine 4. Building your own game engines cost much more millions. What you saw in the video are standard animations that UE4 gives for free. 

 

 

22 minutes ago, raicyrose said:

Even if they released an official statement, people will still ask the same questions, and blame the team for not releasing the game as swiftly as Ubisoft can, or other big companies with large teams.
Not only that, but as I´ve said above, the information stated by Dag has been said by moderators, both on Discord and in the Forums.

Let me give you an advice. Never trust messages in discord, or forums. These messages can be deleted at any time. Unless you get a formal email that proves your statements, then you are good to go. Its good to trust people, but know when to stop.

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2 minutes ago, Plumis said:

First of all, CLEARLY you dont have experience in development. Please never say that again. I am pretty sure you dont even know the rules of object oriented programming. 

lets see, I have a degree in programming, I am studying app development... and yes I do know what object oriented programming is, don't just assume what I do and don't know...

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40 minutes ago, Plumis said:

First of all, CLEARLY you dont have experience in development. Please never say that again. I am pretty sure you dont even know the rules of object oriented programming. 

You are assuming you know the guy and stating he don't have knowledge about something when you don't actually know him in person. 

40 minutes ago, Plumis said:

Second, its very clear that the company has a bad project management, thus missing all the deadlines, which at the end will lead them to their end. 

You clearly have not been here too long because you are "practically" saying that the developers have never stated they have made mistakes. Well I can say they have stated they have made mistakes, but I don't see any other company doing so. They are still new as a game company and so things are to be expected to be out of place.

40 minutes ago, Plumis said:

Third, the reason of holding the release is maybe because there are no developers to develop? Did you really think that after 4 years of development 1.3 million dollars would be enough? Please be more realistic.

Everyone knows that amount of money is not enough to develop a game. There were only 3 developers for an entire year. They are now a 25 man team roughly. This has not been in development for 4 years yet. Good games take a couple years, Great games take several years. The team is smaller than a Triple A company but it still has hope to deliver a game of such high standard. The new and small team needs 1. Time 2. Support 3. Trust.     Trust is always last to have with someone.

Oh and the information which DagTag gave you came not only from the Moderators, it came from the Community Manager. The Moderators get their information from the CM. 

Don't assume you know somebody unless you actually know them.

Edited by JamesLuck01
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Guys we really need to stay positive and stay together as a community. I'm a backer myself, of course we expect the game to be something big and thats why we backed this project. My 5 cents is that the Town Square will be released very soon and that after that the next modules will be out very quickly before the full game is out around next year. It's not only like they are working on the Town Square but they are working on the whole game and have been from start. As a backer we can't expect that we must get something. We must expect delays, and some waiting to do but in the end it will be worth it.

What the devevlopers need from us is our backing, and our trust and that we stay together as a community and you will see that it will be much faster than anyone expected.

Edited by ReaL1337

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Just now, ReaL1337 said:

My 5 cents is that the Town Square will be released very soon and that after that the next modules will be out very quickly before the full game is around next year

There are 3 Modules and then the Beta before the full game. Module 1 will be the longest module to be developed, Module 2 (S.W.A.T. Module) will release the quickest but Module 3 (The Racing Module), there will be a lot of hurdles to clear, with some brick walls the devs will hit and will take more time than Module 2 but will be shorter than Module 1 in development. Then we will need all 3 modules to be joined as 1 before getting the Beta while also adding in the rest of the features which are planned for Full Game Release including the full map.  The Beta is for general testing, stress testing and bug fixing. Your opinion is optimistic about the full game coming 2019 and I totally hope so but my opinion it will be at least 2020 and I think that is optimistic for me to say. I have faith in the developers but I want to not get my hopes up. I am 100% with them, but we need to wait longer if we want the game we want. 

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On 7/24/2018 at 6:40 AM, dagtag said:

I am not trying to be mean or anything but you didnt pay for a product, you helped back a project. If you cant handle delays and even more delays then maybe you shouldnt have backed in the first place... As i stated before i m not trying to be mean but there are a lot of people who think they paid for a product, people like these actually give the developers a hard time by first giving their money and then taking that away again...

 

What do you mean by we didn't pay for a product?

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5 minutes ago, Kellog said:

What do you mean by we didn't pay for a product?

 

I mean that you pledged for a project, you get a product in return but that's not the point of pledging... People who pledge for this game immediately assume its theirs for the taking and they can command to get the game whenever they want, this is not the case.

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5 hours ago, dagtag said:

lets see, I have a degree in programming, I am studying app development... and yes I do know what object oriented programming is, don't just assume what I do and don't know...

 

Well then get your hands on UE4,  I got my hands on UE4 and Unity and what some folks stated is very true.  What was shown to us as far as game play is few weeks of work max.  People design levels like that in couple hours, those with experience of course. They are not showcasing any combat system, or physics.  You're just running around a level.. Let's be real

Edited by Oroborous

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Just now, Oroborous said:

Well then get your hands on UE4,  I got my hands on UE4 and Unity and what some folks stated is very true.  What was shown to us as far as game play is few weeks of work max.  People design levels like that in couple hours, those with experience of course can do it in a couple of hours. We're not introducing any combat system, or physics.  You're just running around a level..

 

hahaha how funny, you are not just running around, a lot of the things had to work... all the interactions with the environment, the eye to details, the whole system behind the art, the system behind the apartments, the system behind stream mode. And those are just a couple of examples, TS isn't just some 'level design' as you put it, its far more than that...

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6 minutes ago, dagtag said:

hahaha how funny, you are not just running around, a lot of the things had to work... all the interactions with the environment, the eye to details, the whole system behind the art, the system behind the apartments, the system behind stream mode. And those are just a couple of examples, TS isn't just some 'level design' as you put it, its far more than that...

 

I did not see much of functionality or interaction on the videos.  Opening/closing doors comes with the engine and no programming is required.  Placing object does need programming but you can get a blueprint right off the marketplace that allows you to do that for few dollars.  While modeling would be the time consuming part in that amount of time they sure could have tons of models by now. vegetation, that's an easy part.  I did not pay attention if there is a day/night cycle and if there is a wind and weather but that's also not hard to get done. 

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Just now, Oroborous said:

I did not see much of functionality or interaction on the videos.  Opening/closing doors comes with the engine and no programming is required.  Placing object does need programming but you can get a blueprint right off the marketplace that allows you to do that for few dollars.  While modeling would be the time consuming part in that amount of time they sure could have tons of models by now. vegetation, that's an easy part.  I did not pay attention if there is a day/night cycle and if there is a wind and weather but that's also not hard to get done. 

 

well seems like you are short on information... first of all "buying a blueprint" is not really their style, secondly yes there is a day/night cycle... havent you checked out any gameplay streams? and the vegetation... idk if you know this but they made the grass from scratch that's not easy. and despite all I have said now you have clearly ignored my post, I said those are just a few examples... but I will say it again, level design is NOT all it takes for TS... do us all a favor and do some research before blindly replying.

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3 hours ago, Oroborous said:

I did not see much of functionality or interaction on the videos.  Opening/closing doors comes with the engine and no programming is required.  Placing object does need programming but you can get a blueprint right off the marketplace that allows you to do that for few dollars.  While modeling would be the time consuming part in that amount of time they sure could have tons of models by now. vegetation, that's an easy part.  I did not pay attention if there is a day/night cycle and if there is a wind and weather but that's also not hard to get done. 

 

The apartment decorating system is pretty complex. They would also have to do a lot of custom networking to allow the number of people per server that they're targeting. UE4 out of the box isn't built for handling the amount of players or traffic an MMO requires. 

I honestly don't think the game will release at this point with the funding they have but to try and trivialize the amount of work they've done only shows that you don't actually have any real development experience.

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2 hours ago, dagtag said:

well seems like you are short on information... first of all "buying a blueprint" is not really their style, secondly yes there is a day/night cycle... havent you checked out any gameplay streams? and the vegetation... idk if you know this but they made the grass from scratch that's not easy. and despite all I have said now you have clearly ignored my post, I said those are just a few examples... but I will say it again, level design is NOT all it takes for TS... do us all a favor and do some research before blindly replying.

 

Discord or not you're very well informed..kind of like you're part of the development and i am certain you know exactly how they create all the content.   They made all of their vegetation from scratch? Define scratch since you're so well informed?  Today there is no developer that does not use SpeedTree for vegetation so i doubt you know what you're talking about and i am telling you that making your customs trees, grasses, plants is easy that is if you really want live looking vegetation on top of that you can do magic with shaders.  

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1 minute ago, Oroborous said:

Discord or not you're very well informed..kind of like you're part of the development and i am certain you know exactly how they create all the content.   They made all of their vegetation from scratch? Define scratch since you're so well informed?  Today there is no developer that does not use SpeedTree for vegetation so i doubt you know what you're talking about and i am telling you that making your customs trees, grasses, plants is easy that is if you really want live looking vegetation on top of that you can do magic with shaders.  

 

I didn't say it isn't easy, its just time consuming. and I am well informed because I actually pay attention when something is mentioned, believe it or not you get well informed on discord. Maybe you should try it sometime, you might actually have a chance that your arguments hold up then

Edited by dagtag

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2 minutes ago, Oroborous said:

Discord or not you're very well informed..kind of like you're part of the development and i am certain you know exactly how they create all the content.   They made all of their vegetation from scratch? Define scratch since you're so well informed?  Today there is no developer that does not use SpeedTree for vegetation so i doubt you know what you're talking about and i am telling you that making your customs trees, grasses, plants is easy that is if you really want live looking vegetation on top of that you can do magic with shaders.  

 

Actually Bethesda doesn't use SpeedTree any longer. They created their own custom vegetation system for Skyrim.

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I agree to the Networking problem.  UE4 is know for that and they would have to write their own server or use something like Photon.  Maybe Photon with  GamesParks and those are not free of course. 

 

3 hours ago, patrick68794 said:

Actually Bethesda doesn't use SpeedTree any longer. They created their own custom vegetation system for Skyrim.

 

Bethesda has expiriance the resources to build their own system, Just like CD Projekt who developed The Witcher series wrote their own engine. 

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Just now, Oroborous said:

Bethesda has expiriance the resources to build their own system, Just like CD Projekt who developed The Witcher series wrote their own engine. 

 

I was just pointing out that not all developers use SpeedTree, there are also some very impressive custom vegetation systems for Unreal created by individuals and/or small teams. I've seen several with support for fire propagation, procedural trees, shrubbery, and vines, etc. Some of them are actually more impressive than SpeedTree is. 

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8 hours ago, dagtag said:

I mean that you pledged for a project, you get a product in return but that's not the point of pledging... People who pledge for this game immediately assume its theirs for the taking and they can command to get the game whenever they want, this is not the case.

 

It's literally says SHOP and it says BUY, I'm not pledging a project im buying a fucking game.

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